Logan Black has been wrestling for 15 years as a singles wrestler and in the tag team Kings of Chaos, who have been one of the most intimidating and feared tag teams on the east coast. The match of his that really caught my eye was the incredible match that he had in 2020 against Kennedi Copeland, for Limitless Wrestling. This match was during the pandemic, so there was no crowd, but it was a match that told a great story and I believe it helped skyrocket Kennedi to the star that she is today.
That tells you a lot of what you need to know about Logan, as he has a knack for making stars. He has not only been able to do this with his opponents in the ring, but he has been one of the head trainers at the T2T Academy, which has been putting out some of the most unique and talented young wrestlers, and referees, in independent wrestling today.
Logan came out in March of 2021, even though he said that his close friends and his tag team partner already knew that he was queer. In the past year Logan has competed in some of the top independent promotions in the north east, which are also some of the most progressive promotions, like Blitzkrieg! Pro, Enjoy Wrestling, and Pro Wrestling Vibe. In my opinion it is very important that we have people like Logan Black and Mr. Grim in professional wrestling, showing that you can be out, be queer, and not have to feel like you have to fit into a certain mold or stereotype. I was able to ask Logan a few questions about inclusion in professional wrestling, the T2T academy, his very entertaining podcast, Year One, and more.
When most people look at wrestling they see this hyper masculine sport, that attracts mostly straight white cis men. What would you say to people that think wrestling is not for them or even people who are fans of wrestling who are afraid to go to shows or be themselves because they are queer?
One of the things that I like to say to people whenever I’m promoting a show or tell them what I do is “let me change your perception of professional wrestling”. My personal favorite thing about it is that there’s something for everyone… it really is a three-ring circus and hey, if you don’t like the flippy scramble guys, you’re gonna love the brawl. If you don’t like the brawl, then you’re gonna watch these technicians tear it up with something different. Good shows have variety and that’s what I think gets lost on a lot of lapsed fans or non fans: they think it’s 3 hours of Hogan/Warrior type stuff… which in today’s wrestling climate couldn’t be farther from the truth. But I also think that what keeps a lot of queer people away from wrestling is THAT exact perception, or worse, that it isn’t a safe place for them to exist. That really begins at the ground level of a promotion, where they make it their business to be inclusive and have zero tolerance for nonsense. I’ll never forget… going to a Gwar show and some dude showed up dressed as Hitler (it was Halloween, for reference). It took about 15 minutes for the crowd to house this dude and send him packing. THAT is the energy I want from a crowd at a wrestling show, and that truly starts when a promotion tells you off the bat that they are here for everyone and won’t put up with nonsense. Places like Enjoy, IWW, and Blitzkrieg Pro are just a few where that message isn’t just implied, it is put out there in plain English. THAT is what I think helps bring new and lapsed fans back into the fold. That… and having a product that doesn’t just appeal to straight, cis guys. I’d also take a page out of Eddy McQueen’s book and tell any possible queer fans that “wrestling is drag”… because honestly, that’s a pretty damn perfect explanation.
When you spoke with Outsports you said that in the past you felt like you weren’t queer enough. This is a statement that really hits home for me and a lot of other people. What would you say to other people that feel that way?
I’d probably tell anyone who felt that way that, yes, what you’re feeling is valid but that it is shared by so many others. The biggest thing for me that came from that interview was just how many people reached out to me saying that they felt the exact same way and didn’t quite know how to verbalize it. But it is also about growth and understanding that no group of people is a monolith. Masc and femme are parts of a spectrum, but that’s the point… it’s a spectrum. And you also don’t ever need to fit in a box. You get to define yourself. You define your queerness.
You grew up in the punk rock scene. Having been around that scene whenever I was younger, I see a lot of similarities, both good and bad, to the wrestling scene. What similarities do you see and is there anything that you learned from being in the punk scene that you think we could use to improve wrestling?
I think the most important thing that wrestlers could take from the punk scene is self-branding and promotion. Most of us don’t have contracts or agents, so we need to promote ourselves and understanding how to do so is no small feat. Starting out early and realizing “this isn’t easy and I need to learn to enjoy swimming upstream” is absolutely something that all young wrestlers should absorb. Another thing I think is similar between wrestling and punk is the idea of policing your own. What I mean is that you need to keep your scene clear of trash and nonsense. I think this is similar because we seem to be having a lot of issues within our wrestling scene of keeping problematic people out… just like in various music scenes locally and globally. We really do, as a community, need to be doing better.
You are one of the trainers at T2T academy that has put out some very unique and talented stars. Can you tell us about the school and what makes your school different?
My goal from the start of training anyone was to create a positive learning environment. For ages, we’ve had this weird aura around wrestling where it helped create a bully culture and a culture of abuse. It’s crazy to me because so many who add to that crap are also the same to use the “this is a business” line a lot. Name me another business where you can just abuse people left and right and it’s encouraged… please, try being a personal trainer or fitness instructor and flat about verbally and physically abuse your clients. You won’t last long. Why should we aim for anything else with the “business” of pro wrestling? I preach encouraging your peers, I preach support of others, I preach keeping all vibes positive within the walls of our school and to radiate that outwards when we’re elsewhere… to me, that’s what makes T2T unique. For too long, I was unable to create that positive environment. Now, I have the support to make it happen and I couldn’t be more thrilled with the results.
You have had some incredible personalities come from your school, like Delightful Dan The Goddamn Candyman, Sazzy Boatright and Tiara James. Is there something about your school that allows these wrestlers to express these loud personalities?
I like to encourage people to be what they want to be. I certainly give guidance and my thoughts on their choices, but my personal philosophy is that you need to fail in order to learn. I want them to be loud and crazy and out there… and then see, in real time and through real experience, what works and doesn’t. For you guys to get what you see and love from Sazzy Boatright, there was a process of them working things out and trying stuff out on smaller shows and COMPLETELY failing to then pick up the pieces and carve out the larger than life character you see today. And most importantly, in my opinion, is the understanding that everything continues to grow and evolve and to always be trying new things out. Last thing you ever want to be is stale.
You are in a very successful tag team with Chris Benne, The Apostles of Chaos, and there has been at least one very impressive tag team, The Network, come from your school. Are there any key elements that you would teach someone in a tag team that is different than a singles wrestler?
I don’t think that there’s anything specific about tag wrestling that you need to train someone on… outside of just understanding that it’s a gimmick match just like a ladder or cage. There’s a true art to tag wrestling and I think that it starts with learning how to use the gimmick of the match, and grows with experience. We really do drill a lot of tag stuff at T2T.
Industrial World Wrestling have put on underground shows in NYC, which are very unique in how they are held and the matches. Can you describe how you have been able to put these shows together and the atmosphere there?
If I told you how we were able to run these shows, the NYSAC would be on our ass in a split second haha. But I’ve always been a proponent of “Fuck the NYSAC” so they can continue being corrupt and clueless. Our goal was just to put on the fun shows that we personally feel that NYC is missing. I don’t see IWW as a wrestling show at all… it’s a party. The majority of our crowd are local hipsters who have either never seen wrestling or are more casual fans. This is a crowd that loses their minds over shoulder tackles… but we’re out there giving them excellent matches full of highspots. THAT is what I think helps create that atmosphere: people are there to have fun, drink cheap beer and smoke whatever they’ve got. They don’t come through to give star ratings or tweet about botches or complain in any way… they just want to have fun. IWW is a party, and we intend to keep it that way. Doesn’t hurt that we value inclusivity and are quite loud about it… but I’ve already touched on that.
Whenever a new student comes to your school, is there a way that you let them know that your school is a safe space or on the other hand let them know that intolerance is not accepted at T2T?
I actually have a spiel that I give to all students coming through, where I just simply tell them we don’t stand for any bigotry, hatred, homophobia, transphobia, racism, ableism or bullying. In addition, on the wall is a list of the one building rule: “don’t be a dick”, which kinda encompasses all that. It’s pretty clear within ten minutes in that building what the culture is and it is extremely rare we ever have an issue with people not following. Additionally, I let everyone introduce themselves on their first day with their favorite wrestler and their pronouns. I’ve had students come to me months after joining and tell me that simply by asking for pronouns publicly, they felt safer in the space.
IWW is teaming with Wrestlers’ Lab to come to the Pittsburgh area in August. Can you tell us what we should expect from that show?
The Wrestler’s Lab/IWW colab show is something I’m REALLY excited for. Basically, the concept is bringing our IWW party out to Pittsburgh. I honestly don’t know how people in western PA party, but I’m hoping it’s at our level. We’re just looking to bring a great time with some great wrestling to the area. Hoping that all those nerds in the Lab are looking to shed their glasses and coats and trade it for some party attire.
Lastly, I really enjoyed your podcast, Year One. On all your episodes you asked the same question to wrap up the show, so I will ask it of you. Can you tell us the most interesting person that you met in your first year of wrestling?
Weirdest person in my first year… man that’s a hard one cuz I feel like Gleason’s Gym collected weirdos. It’s honestly impossible for me to name the most unique person of that year, though I can pinpoint 2 of the craziest things I ever witnessed in 15 years that happened within my first few months. The first being a battle Royal that started, had a few people eliminated, only to restart because Johnny Rodz forgot to play the national anthem… so you had people who were eliminated coming back in the ring, and others who were just punching each other in the ring stopping cold and putting their hands over their hearts. The other incident involved two wrestlers in another battle Royal. They were both in at the end and neither wanted to lose. So they flat out shot on each other for nearly 10 minutes to eliminate the other, all while Rodz kept counting them down and yelling at them over the speakers. I tell both of these stories in more detail on the podcast (which will be making a return in a few weeks).
You can find more about
Follow Logan Black on Twitter: @KingOfChaosNYC
Follow T2T academy on Twitter: @T2TWrestling
Follow Year One Podcast on Twitter: @year1pod
You can see the students of the T2T academy in New Kensington, PA as Wrestlers’ Lab and IWW present “Scientific Tendencies” on August 12. Check out Wrestlers’ Lab on Twitter @WrestlersLab or IWW at @WrestlingIWW for more information. You can also see the previous events from IWW on IWTV.