In PWPonderings’ latest exclusive interview, the Keys To The East Champion, Ikuro Kwon (@The_IkuroKwon), sits down with PWPonderings’ own Scott Mitchell (@scott44mitchell) to discuss ETU Wrestling, including cashing in his Contender Key on J Boujii to win that title, choosing his moment, his hatred for J Boujii, his upcoming match at ETU’s next big event, “Marcus Mathers All I Want 4,” The Expected, Gabriel Skye, and much more. Watch it in its entirety down below.
I want to jump right into it. Back in July, you cashed in your Contender Key on J Boujii to win the Key To The East Title. What was it like for you to win that title?
“Full circle in one way. I was home for like 20-something hours until then, from Mexico. I lost my Middleweight Title match to Templario. It’s one of those, like, is that maybe the biggest weeks of my life, professionally, and that’s how it ends? That’s not how it’s going to end. The thing about ETU and why we’re planting our flag there is because it’s up for grabs. It is. Other people put their flags there too, but it’s not cemented in. So, when we see an opportunity, we take it. That’s how we got together in the first place. It’s people who don’t beg. But also, closed mouths don’t get fed. That’s something where we don’t want to conform, but how about we stick with our notion that, well, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. That kind of defused the ‘hey, opportunities only go to so and so,’ or ‘Hey, you have to wrestle here.’ Nah. The title win was symbolic of what I said we were going to take over. It’s not a prediction or spoiler-type deal; I’m literally telling you. I understand other wrestlers tell you what they’re going to do. But this is where I show you where the line is. It doesn’t have to look pretty, and it damn sure doesn’t have to look your way. Honor? Honor is subjective. I have a championship. My boys have championships now. J Boujii and everyone else who fights for that ETU flag has none. So, the proof is in the gold.”
Some fans may view this as a shortcut, as you cashed this in after J Boujii had wrestled two matches that night, including a hellacious main event against Joseph Alexander to crown the new Key To The East Title. What would your response be?
“I put it in my post. That was one of the greatest matches I’ve ever had to witness. Those finals. J Boujii. J Alexander. They are everything that people say that they are. That’s separate from all that future, heart, and generation stuff; none of that blocks a punch. None of that stops what is about to happen. If it was A Game, that one, it would be the same thing. It’s just poetic that it was J Boujii. It could have been anybody. Anybody in that tournament. People I like in that tournament; it’s fine. This is the thing that a lot of people, a lot of fans, don’t understand, even with the whole online thing. That’s the thing you said: it’s all online. I tell fans all the time, these barricades are not force fields. I’ll break them open. Tell it to me. They won’t. They won’t because they can’t. They can’t because there’s no retort to what I’m trying to tell you. I’m going to kick his head in. ‘Oh yeah, well, what about after?’ They can’t tell me that what I’m saying is not true. They just don’t like it. They can continue to not like it, as long as they’re continuing to pay to not like it. That’s what’s going on. If the hope that J Boujii is giving them keeps them alive, what they don’t realize is that all that hope is greed to me. That hope means you’re tuning in. That hope means you’re buying tickets. That means those tears that you wiped from your face- drink that shit. Cool. They can say anything they want, too. He had two matches? I don’t care. You know what I’m saying? I wrestled for seven days before that, with the best in the world, at seven thousand-plus elevation. They don’t know, unless they know. People who do know don’t say it. They identify themselves, no matter what. I’m not worried about the fans.”
You and J Boujii have some history together, and more importantly, a deep hatred. What made you and him just despise each other so much?
“He talks to me like I’m not me. It’s still separate from the pride. He can talk however he wants, but he’s yelling at my front door. That’s the difference. He can yell three blocks away; I don’t care. I don’t pull up to these smaller shows and mess with him. I don’t have to. I won’t say that’s not where he belongs. He belongs at ETU. Just behind The Expected. The problem is he thinks that’s an option. He talks through it, yells about it. He joins the leagues where he can only hit people and knock them out with their hands down. I’m not like, he knows what he’s doing, because it works for other people. The fact that it doesn’t work for me makes him feel that he has to hit low, and that he has something to prove. It’s delusion. It’s only him who feels this way, still. Ken Broadway retired. Pretty Boy Smooth is worried about his championship; he’s worried about what he’s doing. Not saying they don’t care about J Boujii, but they understand; they took an L. Respectfully, that L is a lesson for Ken and Smooth. Smooth is getting more jacked by the day. He’s ripping, running, and promoting. Ken Broadway- he’s getting in his straight. He’s making sure his ladies are good. Again, he’s a money man; I know him. J Boujii, the only one who has that L remaining a loss. He shows his ass, pause. He showed out. When he crashed out, he hasn’t been seen. All he’s done is post. I said he’s his own worst enemy; it’s not The Expected or me, it’s him. I just bring it to light and let him implode. Then, I win. Then, we win. As you said, exactly, it’s competitive; it should be a one-and-done. But then he grabs microphones, goes online, and talks crazy. It’s not about him getting it, because he doesn’t. This is just a public spanking of the kid in the neighborhood who needs to stop talking. He just chooses for it to be on TV. It could be private, or a promoter could have the balls to tell him, or his boys could tell him. But no. They left. Which means that they probably told him; he didn’t listen, and they said, ‘Alright, we’re going upstairs. You can follow us if you want to, or you can keep banging on the door in the basement that there’s no need to get through.’ We’re not even in the basement. We’ve been on the rooftop. He doesn’t get that. Once he opens that basement door, he’s going to walk up those flights. What’s up those flights? A lot of shit he’s not prepared for. So, weirdly, I’m kind of helping him. Stay with the slapping. Stay with the championships that you have not in this sport. It’s really not; I don’t even want to give it as much power as ‘hate’ because it means I have an emotional attachment to him. I don’t. He just needs to either go or get with the program. It looks like he went.”
Also, coming up this month, you will be teaming up with Gabriel Skye & Matt Mako to battle Team ID’s Gal, Cappuccino Jones, & Sam Holloway. What is your mindset heading into this match?
“I look at it as: Sam Holloway has bad knees, Cappuccino Jones doesn’t fight killers, and I think WWE keeps Gal around just to see him get beat up. That’s how I’m walking into it. I don’t care what brand you represent. The bell has got to ring. So, some people would look at the situation and say, ‘This is my chance.’ No. This is their chance. They’re on the chopping block. Not us. Nah uh. They’re supposed to win this match. All the people that protect them. At the same time, if they were really their investors, they wouldn’t put them in harm’s way. If they were really the investment. The number one ID pick, that first-class action. They have to win. The thing about us, it’s not that we don’t either, but it’s the unity of it. Our why is greater than theirs. Even if you strip that away, on a straight combat level. What Gabriel Skye can put his body through. The discipline and knowledge that Matt and I have, our own perspective, disciplines, and just our mentality altogether. Now, the little side shot at Sam Holloway isn’t really too personal, because I consider him a friend. But I will tell him: he better talk to these guys. They better understand. He knows. He knows he has to double-wrap with his fists with me. Friendship doesn’t matter. My kicks do not care about what you got going on. When that bell rings, and you’re in my way, you’ll be out of my way. The most important thing for them is to show up to work, keep their mouths shut, and if they are going to open their mouths, it’ll be with respect. None of them want to have words with me, first of all. But they damn sure don’t want to piss me off before the bell rings. I don’t tell Gabe what to do or tell Make what to do. But I do organize the game plan. If I switch the game plan to kill, that’s what’s going to happen. It won’t be pretty. There is no referee. If it’s Gina, God help her. If it’s Ref Steven, I love him enough, and he respects me enough, that I’ll give him a look and he’s not stepping in. We don’t have security at the venue. Those bitch-ass fans aren’t doing anything either. So, they better understand this is where they understand now and really process what they’re walking into. It’s my house. You wipe your shoes. You show respect. There is no other; there is no second chance. If they hear this, they should know. If not, they can look it up when they’re in the hospital, when they wake up. This is the whole demeanor of it. I tweeted it today. WWE ID means DOA. That’s not Dead or Alive; that’s Dead On Arrival. You show up, and you come out of pocket with any of us; we’re not waiting until our match number. It’ll start in the locker room. You don’t get to pick your table. Nah. The champ gets to drink first, the champ gets the best seat, the champ gets the best. You get in where you fit in. I promise, you’re not one of us. That’s how I’m coming. I can speak for Skye and Mako; they feel the same way. You think we’re going to be buddy-buddy, like we’ll tell ‘Hey, Shawn, these kids down here.’ That’s not how I want to meet him. I damn sure don’t want to expect anything less. We’re not taking them lightly. At this point in my career, I don’t fight people that don’t matter. All the things I talk about, J Boujii, understand something. My name is not on a line unless the opponent matters. That’s been my whole MO. I can wrestle three times per year. I’d rather that, and the paycheck, than 70 times a month. That’s just me. But that’s also the mentality of The Expected. We’re not waiting in lines. I’m not going to be like, ‘Well, we are the line.’ No. There are no lines. It’s The Expected, and then it’s everyone else, and everyone else includes the WWE ID program. Once again, for the fourth time, Marcus gets whatever he wants. Good. I guarantee the result that’s going to happen is not what he wants. I think there’s going to be three new open spots on the ID list after this.”
The Expected, consisting of Gabriel Skye, Matt Mako, Alec Price, and Austin Luke, have run roughshod over ETU. What was it like to form this group?
“It’s crazy because what happened is I went to an ETU show to watch Gabe. Gabe, next thing you know, is in the ring with Austin Luke, Matt Mako, and Brandon Kirk. That’s interesting. Not too long after, Kirk hangs it up. Now, this wonderful seed of an idea, and this wonderful canvas of what could be something significant, there was nobody to pick up the brush. There was nobody to steer, going back to that ship. Nobody was there to steer. I saw an opportunity, a reason, and a collective why that made sense. It was very clear. This was not about a leader, or a best of, or any of that. It was: I know how to articulate our mission in a way that not only the locker room will understand, but the office will understand, and the fans will have to understand. That comes from leading by example and showing them that I won’t send you out to do something that I wouldn’t do. If we all show up together, we all leave together. If one of us does not make it home, I’m not sleeping in my bed that night. I won’t go into my bed until someone who took you out gets the same thing. The loyalty. For them to understand the type of bond that Gabe and I have, they also know, even if they’re timid about it at first, they also know that I’d die for Gabe Skye, and he for me. So, if I’m sitting next to him, they’re just as safe next to him. But again, that’s why. Austin Luke knows Gabe very well. They’ve had countless battles. Same with (Alec) Price. Countless battles. But they’ve also watched other people take what they could have had. This is just us taking. That’s how you see the narrative, right? When people you like take, you don’t look at it as ‘taking.’ When people you don’t like take, it’s stealing. So, they can say whatever they want. I guarantee if Marcus came out with that key, people would be out of their seats. So, that’s the perspective of why they’re there. It’s just expected now. It’s kind of- it’s not a play on words, but it’s a deeper definition of what we’re trying to build and a deeper message of why we are here. It answers all the questions in the name. We’re not bitter. We’re not crying about it. We’re just doing something about it. We’re not worried about the backlash. Backlash only exists when you give in to the narrative. We don’t care. I don’t care what people say. I’m holding a championship. They don’t have to like it. If I followed them around for a day, there’s not one thing about their life that I would like, and they’re still going to do it tomorrow. That’s them. The three of those, I had to remind them who they are and what they can really do. Nobody should ever even try to pick out a chair until Matt Makowski chooses his. He could kill everyone in that locker room. Gabe will kill everyone in that locker room. Austin Luke. Man, fly on the wall. He can be right next to me; I look down, I look up, and he’s in the ring. I look down, I look up, he’s in the parking lot. He moves so silently. But when he wants to be heard, he’s there. So, like, nobody has seen a collection of people in this way. Because it’s happening in real time, we’re watching people adapt in real time. We’re watching people process and understand, ‘Oh my God, how could this happen?’ at every show. They’re slowly starting to be like, ‘Where are they?’ They’re starting to expect it. They’re starting to understand. Ikuro Kwon is in Mexico. Is he? Because I expected. What did I expect? For a year and a half now, everything they have expected has been wrong. Everything I’ve said has been right. It’s just education. It’s leading a horse to water, but they don’t have to drink. That’s what this is.”
I remember when you and Gabriel Skye were known as Above The Rest. Now, you guys have each evolved a great deal and have become this new “Expected” team. What has it been like to work with Gabriel Skye and see him grow?
“He will always be my measuring stick for: do I have more in the tank? That exceeds the past; I’m tired, I want to lay down, but my baby wants to throw a ball in the wrong direction again, right? It’s not like, what would Gabe do? But it’s like, he would do one more set. He would do one more mile. He would do one more minute. It’s not that I need his help to do things I’m going to do. But it’s that reminder. I hope that I can play a role in his mind too, in his planning with stuff. He’s counting on me to be the best that I can be, and he’s out there killing himself to be the best for me. I’m not going to let him down. We’re only as strong as our weak point. I don’t want weaknesses. That’s how he lives his life. When I see him, that’s what gains my respect. I said. We don’t have to be this close. We train together. That’s where the relationship ends. If you work with someone, I used to work at a supermarket when I was a kid; I didn’t hang out with my coworkers. Right? We’d be cool there. Listen to music together, steal food together. But after? I don’t know your number. I don’t know you. I don’t want to know you outside of it. Gabe Skye is in my life because he belongs there. He’s held, my daughter. He’s been to my home. He knows my wife. It goes deeper than the quarter rolls and the up-and-overs. It’s seeing that fire is real. He understood that. We bonded over that. On paper? Completely different. He likes rock. I like hip hop. He’s from Suffolk; I’m from Nassau. Everything opposite. I’m a few years older than him too, and we’re living completely different lifestyles. So, that commonality became wrestling. Then, it became our outlook towards life, and seeing it in real time. Enemies come out shooting; I’m shooting back. He’s not ducking; he’s out the window. So, I know he’s about it. I don’t have to wonder what he’s doing. He knows the plan; he knows the job. That’s real loyalty. People ask all the time, who’s going to turn on who? That doesn’t exist, because it’s real life. That’s a bond that Mako and Austin Luke see. It’s not like we have a separate thing. No. This is my standard for who gets let into the circle. So, already, if you’re here, that means you stand for something that I believe in, respect, and I know you’d die for our cause. I don’t expect you to put your successes behind mine. But if we’re acting like our successes are separate from The Expected’s, then that’s when we have a conversation. We win together, we lose together, because individually we are our own. We’re just all in the same boat. That’s the difference where other teams falter. That’s where jealousy comes in; greed comes in. That’s where non-communication comes in. There is no communication that we don’t understand. Why do babies cry? They want something. They’re hungry, they’re tired, they pooped, they’re about to poop. Why do adults cry? They’re hungry. They’re tired. They go outside; they want to come inside. Someone’s at the door; they can’t talk. Adults bitch, complain, hit shit, and do dumb shit when they don’t know how to talk. ‘My grandpa hit my dad, my dad hit me.’ No, your Grandpa didn’t know how to f**king talk. Your dad didn’t know how to talk. So, you didn’t learn how to talk. That’s why you’re in cuffs. Oh, your relationship didn’t work out? Maybe it’s because you asked your divorced parents for help. People don’t know how to leave rooms. I make sure my friends are good, and my people don’t fall. They do the same with me. They’re just not worried about me falling. That’s the bond that cements the four of us together.”
You guys had an “Expected” show that got cancelled in February. Unfortunately, a snowstorm hit and just derailed everything. Do you have any plans to make up for this and present another “Expected” event?
“I mean, we were going to look really good; I’ll tell you that much. Killionaires were going to look really bad. I even told them, I’ll put J Boujii in a triple threat match with three snakes; I don’t care. It was us, and I was like, that’s cool, want to physically rain on our parade. How about we just make every show ours anyways? Dead Set? Took the titles. Next show? Took the titles. This next show coming up? About to beat the shit out of some WWE ID guys. It’s whatever we want. You can change the name all you want. If ‘Marcus Mathers All I Want’ is going to sell that place out first, those marks are going to come? Cool. That’s fine. It’s cool when you get to have that ability to be in a position where your name could be selling the show. When things don’t turn out the way we’re expecting, we’ve been here before. It’s why we’re here. It’s why we exist. What we expect doesn’t happen. So, we have to make it happen. The whole point of us having our own show was to get the belts. So, we got the belts anyway. Every show is our show. I’m the champion. Here’s what’s crazy. If I was busy on the 19th, the show may have been on the 20th. I don’t care that it’s Marcus Mathers show. If I’m available, that’s when the show is. J Boujii doesn’t have that power. Killionaire’s never had that power. That’s what I mean, where the other intent is like, ‘Oh, your show,’ and this and that. I’m good. I’m good.”
Looking ahead, what are your future goals?
“MLW, there’s more that I want to build. Especially now with Contra taking more of a final form. Being able to be a part of that group and see the things that I’ve seen and listen to the things that I listen to. The Opera Cup is coming up. This will be my fourth one, I believe. Fourth time is the charm, maybe? But it’s something where I’m more seasoned now. So, the idea of being invited to the CMLL, and just me, having my first solo tour. Again, think of all the wrestlers in the world they can bring in. I’m not a luchador. That is something where I earned the trust of that building, that office, and those men and women with whom we communicate through wrestling. We converse in the ring through our movement, through our love, and through our understanding and our childhood, and our training, and what we grew up with. We tell stories to each other in there of who we are and why we’re here. You do not fail there. You can’t. The last thing that was said to me was, ‘Ikuro Kwon is always good here.’ No matter what. You don’t mess with the present. That doesn’t happen because, ‘I’m a nice guy, let me say something.’ No. He got up and came out of his office. That’s a different conversation. So, I would love to win a championship in CMLL, be invited back, do the Grand Prix again. I would love to see what MLW can become. I know what that company can become, I know what that locker room is, and I know what my value can hold there. Again, it all matters too- how it’s reciprocated- but I know I’m meant to do this. I know there’s a reason for me in this business to be something. I’m ready. I’m ready for whatever. When we talked before, it wasn’t blowing smoke. I’m incredibly useful. I know that. But I also know the opportunities I’m given aren’t always reflective of just me being able to do them. So, things like this- this is what I’m glad I jumped on this so quickly, because I knew that me being able to say what I needed to say in a way, with someone who understands how to ask and how to talk with me, that this is how I’m able to get to those spots. I want people to understand where I come from and how I do business. So, this is how, as far as future goals, I’m going to be good wherever or whenever. I’m not meant to be less than anything. That’s how I look at it too. I’m not ashamed of anything, and I realize that. I’m supposed to be in this spotlight situation. I’m supposed to be under the trust and tutelage of legends, and I’m supposed to be given the nod by CEO’s, by promoters, by owners, by bosses. Because, they recognize who I am by talking to me, and they know that when they put something on me, whether a championship, trust, or a spot, they make money. They’re not proven wrong. There’s not one person who’s going to deny that, and I take pride in that too. That I make any place that invests in me better. We’ll see.”
Any future opponents you’d like to square off with?
“It’s crazy. There are three people I never wrestled. I never wrestled Marcus Mathers, I never wrestled Jordan Oliver, and I never wrestled Alec Price. Three people who have wrestled everybody, everywhere, all of our friends, at least ten times. But we never got to cross paths. Marcus, Gabe, and I were in a six-man tag against Miracle Generation and Alec Price. But we didn’t really get to touch or do that. Jordan and I, we’ve been in the same spaces since we started. We started with CZW Dojo Wars, CZW main roster, MLW, and it sprouted off from there. It’s something where you want to wrestle the generation class. You want to wrestle people with class. Those are three guys, right off the top, who have done so much that they have, in their own right, become measuring sticks in terms of the modern-day indie. But I also know that we’ve never seen what happens between the two of us, whoever it is. We can’t, as far as legends are concerned. I don’t have a wish list with that as much, because you just want to be pleasantly surprised, and now trying to be in the position of someone where people can view me in that spot. Not a legend, but someone who they have to step up with. That’s a pressure that you want, that you always want, that you hear about in practice. The first time you’re training, you see this theme of ‘Oh, I started six months before you,’ and that feeling. It’s go-time. I want to be in the ring with people who feel it’s go time. I’m not worried about who my next opponents are. Because I understand that when my name is here, there’s not going to be any Joe-shmo here. It’s kind of just, let’s see who it’s going to be. I’d love to wrestle Riddle. I’d love to wrestle Andrew Everett. I’d love to wrestle Labron Kozone. In terms of MLW, I want to wrestle Killer Kross. I want a shot at the dog. I want to wrestle the Coffey’s again. I want to wrestle Dijak. But I also want to wrestle Bobby Buffet. There are a lot of people all up and down that, like, I know I will cross paths with; it’s just when, why, and how much we’re doing this for.”