Best of the Indies: Chris Hero (Interviews with Chris Hero: The Chris Hero Story)

This damn thing is six discs long! Unreal. So what I’ve decided is to review the interview portion this week and then the actual matches next week. There’s a lot to talk about here. I’ve got about 8 hours of interview to watch. Not to mention 11matches. I’m not even going to come close to covering everything Hero talks about. I just want to summarize each portion of the interview (and in 2003’s case the whole interview in one sitting) and give everyone a taste. Without even watching a minute, my guess is this collection is going to be worth 30 dollars. Maybe more. But Smart Mark Video is letting you have it for 30.

Disc 1

Chris Hero Shoot Interview- 2003

In a weird way, a professional wrestler’s career is like watching a man or woman grow up. Before diving into the 2011 Chris Hero shoot interview, I decided to breeze through the 2003 one first. It honestly felt like Chris Hero’s little brother was talking to the camera instead of the bearded gentlemen I’d see eight years later. This is a young man who’s already a young veteran within the business. He’s already been to Europe and has trained a number of people, including a few Swiss wrestlers. Wonder if any of them were money-making. At this point, Chikara is really young, but Hero sees a lot of potential in the company because of the ability of the individuals to put matches together and without saying it but implying it, the man who is pretty much associated with Chikara, Mike Quackenbush.

At this point in his career, Chris Hero is just hopeful of possibly maybe making it to Japan. Who would have thought that not only would he end up there, but he would make multiple trips to one of the top companies in the world and get a chance to wrestle iconic figures. He provides some great stories about Tracy Smothers and Bull Pain as one might expect. These veterans are almost more legendary for their antics than their work in the ring. He also talks about his time in IWA-MS and even considers Ian Rotten one of his trainers because of how much he positively affected his career.

It’s always interesting to hear the word association games as Hero has nothing but nice things to say about CM Punk. He says that despite Punk’s brashness and occasional forays into being a jerk, Punk remains a great human in Hero’s eyes. He talks about briefly about some of the rather extended Hero/Punk matches that had only take place recently at the time of his recording. Not much in the way of historical perspective but he does talk about the terrible camera work on the 93 minute match. Based on my experience trying to watch it, I see Hero’s point. What also came across is Hero’s honesty, even all the way back in May 2003. He isn’t afraid to talk about how terrible he was and specifically cite numerous examples through the nearly one hour shoot. I have found in my experience that the truly great wrestlers are the ones who can honestly assess their own matches and admit when something is bad.

To think of Hero already being a near four year veteran is pretty incredible. To know that he would go onto have a long, illustrious career is even more incredible. This was even before Hero was a regular in CZW, Chikara, and Ring of Honor. Those three companies might be more associated with the artist currently known as Kassius Ohno than any of the others mentioned in this interview. I know everyone is going to want to dive into the seven hour 2011 version, but this is a great warm-up if for no other reason you can see a younger Chris Hero provide some early perspective on his budding career.

Chris Hero Shoot Interview- 2011 (IWA-MS)

It’s eight years later, and Chris Hero is a grizzled old veteran of the indy wrestling wars. He’s got a nice beard, and this time Rob Naylor is doing the interview. What are the odds that both people who speak in this interview are now currently employed by WWE? Since there’s so much to cover, the first hour is only focused on IWA-MS, fitting since this is the place where Hero began his career and had so many of his famous matches. This is where the feud with Punk took place. They never had a singles match against each other in ROH, FIP, Chikara, or CZW. IWA and IWC are two of the few places to ever witness two of the modern indy icons battling. Hero talks about the very real heat that was between them. At one time they were friends. Then there was a frost that developed. Thankfully, they were able to resolve their issues. Trying to tell the story myself would do it no justice. Just watch what Hero has to say because it’s a fascinating at how relationships change for better or for worse over time.

Hero is not afraid to give Ian Rotten his just due as a man who wasn’t afraid to give a number of wrestlers an opportunity. So few indy companies do that sort of thing now that it was through this interview that I was able to understand the positives of the company. Obviously, Ian Rotten takes a lot of justified crap for his actions, but to say his company was devoid of value would be a factual inaccuracy.  Through his many years of service, Hero was able to not only wrestle for the promotion but was also able to do some booking and even came up with finishes for matches in his final years. The Eddie Kingston feud is also discussed briefly since a couple of their matches did indeed take place for IWA. An even more underrated feud is the Trik Davis one. Davis is not one of my favorite wrestlers, but Hero has a lot of affection for him because of the mentor/mentee relationship. I’m sure because of this, they were able to have a number of excellent matches with each other.

It is through his time being one of IWA’s big stars that he was able to wrestle and go over some indy darlings who were making trips to Ring of Honor, guys like Samoa Joe and AJ Styles. Hero goes  over some of the tension that existed between people who believed he should be in ROH and those who didn’t. It’s a fascinating listen considering Hero likely was able to finally make it to NOAH and WWE expressly because of all the opportunities he received in Ring of Honor.

Only one disk, and I feel like this has already been 30 dollars well spent.

Disc 2

Chris Hero Shoot Intervew- 2011 (IWA-MS, Chikara, CZW)

In a sense, this is like the semi-main and main event of a show happening third or fourth because the two companies I was most interested in hearing Hero talk about were Chikara and CZW since he had such controversial departures from both. Oddly enough, it doesn’t appear that Hero’s negative actions are directly responsible for not being able to continue wrestling for each, but there is a definite sense of honesty concerning both. It is also a bit surprising in many ways to hear someone say nicer things about Ian Rotten than Mike Quackenbush and CZW. Say what?

Hero starts off by finishing his thoughts on IWA-MS as he discusses the basic destruction of the promotion. Like Paul Heyman, Hero believes Ian Rotten has a great mind for the business, but his inability to take care of the finances competently did him in as a promoter. Between the various other commitments that popped up, Hero was basically out of the promotion by the time the company really became a self-parody. However, regardless of how things turned out, Hero did get his start there on a national stage, and through his connections, was able to make a deep connection with Mike Quackenbush and Chikara.

I cannot think of a better metaphor for the Chris Hero/Mike Quackenbush relationship, at least on Hero’s end, than a guy who falls in love with the first girl he ever dated. Their relationship goes a really long time but ends in such a bitter fashion. The guy will always think of that girl as his first love, but there will always be underlying bitterness. He will never be able to think of her in the same way regardless of the wonderful times they had and the moments they created. The boyfriend may have committed some transgressions himself, but nothing could possibly justify the actions of the girl. That’s not my opinion on the situation, but the way I see Hero reading it. I  cannot fault the man for his honesty. I admire Hero for saying that he didn’t hate or even dislike Quack. However, there is a clear tension that exists. For Chikara fans, this is likely the only chance to hear about Hero’s departure from his own perspective. He admits to doing inappropriate things with Shane Storm’s girlfriend (only text messages), but Hero was still working for the company until the end of the year and was even offered a spot on the anniversary shows of 2008. It seemed like a slow burn as Hero and Quack drifted apart. As Hero classifies it, Quack does everything in wrestling to either get Chikara or himself over. While he has deep admiration for what Quack has accomplished, he sees flaws in the system. Guys like Hallowicked and Frightmare are married to Chikara and unable to break away because their personas are so heavily steeped in Chikara lore. Yet Hero was a trainer there. He had some incredible matches over the years and was even able to get someone like Vin Gerard over as he ended the disastrous first run of Equinox.

If Chikara is the first love, CZW is the rebound girl who you got really drunk with and had a night to forget. From the time he began with the company to the time he left, it seemed as if Hero could never make sense of the madness that was Combat Zone Wrestling. Hero expresses a respect for what Mike Burns did as booker despite some issues, but he does not seem to show nearly the same respect for John Zandig, a man who was unable to take advantage of the Ring of Honor feud in any tangible way and also eventually allowed two of his biggest stars, Hero and Eddie Kingston, to simply walk away. Hero also has little regard for Justice Pain as in two incredibly harrowing stories, Hero manages to bury the man six feet under. Who’s idea was it to have a “Loser Leaves CZW” match? Chris Hero’s. He made a shoot comment on the live microphone and laid down a challenge. Somewhere on this disk, Hero also discusses the fun that CZW and Chikara had when the two wrestling schools were under one roof at the The Arena. Because he doesn’t seem to have much love for either guy, I tend to believe Hero when he says it was all CZW’s fault the school ultimately got broken up because they were “losing their identity.” Hero tries to save some face when he talks about some of the improvements DJ Hyde has made, but there doesn’t seem to be an overall enthusiasm for the product.

Overall, disk two may end up being the juiciest part of the shoot. It’s going to be super tough to follow, but there’s still Ring of Honor, PWG, NOAH, and I would assume a great deal of Larry Sweeney talk still to come.

Disc 3

Chris Hero Shoot Interview-2011 (PWG and start of Ring of Honor conversation)

Perhaps the two companies Chris Hero has best become known for are Pro Wrestling Guerilla and Ring of Honor. He took a far more arduous road in ROH, but his journey in PWG involved a tough title reign and a run-in with Low Ki. Ironically, it was a Midwest connection that ultimately led to Hero coming into the promotion as it was time for the Tango and Cash Invitational. PWG decided to bring in Hero and CM Punk as a team. From there he would be on and off shows until he regularly started teaming with Claudio Castagnoli. Much of the discussion is actually focused on some external stories. I’m sad Hero didn’t talk that much about the Human Tornado feud since it started in rather controversial fashion and really pushed the envelope in some ways. It’s also one of the best (and rare for that matter) angles PWG ever did. Hero supplements talk of his PWG run with two incredible stories about Necro Butcher and Low Ki.

Because of what happened with Shane Storm’s girlfriend in Chikara, one Chris Hero got quite the reputation for being a woman stealer. It is within this framework that the Necro Butcher story unfortunately was able to gain so much credence because of some issues with Necro Butcher’s girlfriend seemingly trying to portray something that didn’t exist with Hero. How bad did it get? Necro Butcher took Hero out of a chair and tried to legitimately punch him out while in the full mount position. Thankfully, this situation petered out, and we don’t have to worry about putting those two gentlemen in a locker room together.

Then there’s Low Ki. Oh Low Ki. Such a fan favorite for his behavior. If you think the guy is a pretentious d-bag before this interview, Chris Hero will satiate that appetite and make an even greater argument. Despite the fact that Hero was PWG world champion and someone who had been a regular with the promotion for three years, it was Low Ki who decided to dress Hero down in the locker room after the first night of all-star weekend back in 2008. Because Eddie Kingston was behaving like a jackass in the ring, the two men had a bit of a confrontation. I’m not even sure how to classify it. Was it a shoot? This story confused the hell out of me considering everything that’s happened between the two men. Hero doesn’t really explain the heat that exists between Kingston anywhere else, so I just walked away confused. Anyway, Hero has had his problems with Ki in other places too. First in a match where Hero did a double stomp, something that Low Ki couldn’t stand because HE’S apparently the only one who can execute said move. Hero also isn’t exactly thrilled about having his nose turned into a bloody vagina (his words) after being kicked hard in the face during the finals of the 2008 Battle of Los Angeles.

Then it’s time for Ring of Honor, the promotion that encompassed the second half of his career. He was of course introduced to ROH through the CZW feud. Amazing to think he was Mr. CZW going into ROH and would pretty much disavow the promotion within 18 months. What started out as a one time thing turned into a six month thing turned into a tag team title defense turned into Sweet ‘n’ Sour. In many ways, Hero’s career comes off like a happy accident. He goes over his time with CZW and talks about Eddie Kingston coming in being a last minute thing. Since one ROH tag team title was left behind, someone thought it would be a good idea to turn it into an angle. Hero talks about the awkwardness of having to lose three tag team titles with Claudio Castagnoli only for Castagnoli to come back to the indies after what sounds like a royal screw-up on WWE’s part. The quality control of whoever did some medical examinations back in 2006 was not good. If nothing else, Hero gets to dispel some more rumors about what is alleged to have happened to Claudio the first time around with WWE. There were no Visa issues, and Claudio does not do cocaine. He also spends some time in this section talking about changing his style, first after being cheered for doing the flippy stuff and then going to trunks when he thought there was a real danger of being cut out of Ring of Honor. With a new administration came new challenges. People were being cut, and Chris Hero was one of them. Because he wasn’t afraid to share his viewpoint on things and because of an incident where Cary Silken thought Hero was taking liberties in the ring with Roderick Strong. The disk ends with hero talking about making the panty conversion (thanks Kevin Ford) and becoming confident enough to wear less in the ring. He also offers some poignant thoughts on steroids and drugs in general.

Highlights of disc three are obviously the Low Ki and Necro stuff, but I really enjoyed Hero stories and Naylor continues to do a great job asking good questions and keeping things focused on whatever promotion they’re discussing at that time.

Disc 4

Chris Hero Shoot Interview-2011 (ROH, JC Bailey, Larry Sweeney, NOAH, JCW)

What is it about this disc that separates it from the others. At this point, the man has been talking for over six hours about his own career. The ups. The downs. Everything in between. But he did get signed to WWE, and you’ve got to believe it’s because of the steps taken in the waning days of his Ring of Honor/indy career. Gone was the skinny fat. Hero got himself into the best shape of his career and received regular touring opportunities in NOAH. In a way, a number of different cosmos came together in just the right way to give Hero the oomph he needed.  There was NOAH. There was Ring of Honor getting television and allowing him the chance to work within time restrictions and to get his personality more over. He also had the chance to wrestle men like Lance Storm, Bryan Danielson on his farewell tour, and KENTA. Then the final piece to the puzzle as a vastly improved Hero and even more improved Claudio Castagnoli reunited to take back their throne as the Kings of Wrestling.

The history is pretty recent, but Hero seems to understand just how important all of this was to his career. He even seems hopeful for Ring of Honor despite all the problems the company has faced recently. He talks extensively about the first match with Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas. It probably won’t surprise you who wasn’t so enthusiastic about joining the company. Ironically, both Haas and Benjamin knew they’d get booed in New York City. They were off by about a year. Hero also discusses the controversial finish involving the Motor City Machine Guns. It really was TNA’s decision not to allow Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin to lose. ROH was handicapped, but even they didn’t expect a negative reaction directed at the Briscoes. Speaking of the Briscoes, Hero has a humorous Papa Briscoe story he relates about being knocked out by Mark and Jay’s father. The Sinclair deal had not taken its full effect at the time of this interview, but Hero believes the company is behind Ring of Honor for the long-term. Wonder how he would feel today about that.

Unfortunately, Hero has to address a number of tragedies that occurred to his friends. The deaths of JC Bailey, Larry Sweeney, and Mitsuharu Misawa had to affect him in different ways that we can’t even fathom. Bailey and Sweeney were his mentees in many ways but in other ways so much more. Although he did not have as full a friendship with Bailey, Hero speaks about him with an incredible amount of reverence and in many ways defends him. He talks about how despite issues with drugs and no doubt the effects of some really stupid bumps, Hero seemed to have a lot of positive memories of the man. When it comes to Sweeney, they were nothing short of being the best of friends. Through their travels in Chikara and Ring of Honor, you can see where the bond was formed. Hero saw so much charisma in Sweeney, even before Sweeney developed into a very good wrestler. He doesn’t dwell on the issues Sweeney faced but made sure to talk about the efforts made by his ex-girlfriend and family to help Sweeney through his problems. Despite having to deal with the deaths of Bailey and Sweeney, it is unthinkable to even wonder how someone could watch one of their brethren, especially someone Hero no doubt admired, lose his life in the ring.

Hero was there to see Misawa’s death, live and in person. It’s one thing to see the gruesome footage online, but imagine being there. It’s incredible Hero continued to be a wrestler, and even continued working the next three shows over the next three nights. I’m sure being in the moment and dealing with things in his own way was his catharsis. And Hero is sure to mention the positives. Go Shiozaki received a main event chance and the promotion saw a short term increase in business.

The interview ends on a positive note as Hero talks about some stories from his life, including the incident that took place in Australia that ended up being aired on national television in the country. He also relates his experiences at The Gathering of the Juggalos, which if I wasn’t considering going before, I sure would be convinced to stay far away at this point. One of the final tales is about Hero accidentally curb stomping a ring announcer before immediately urinating his tights. Of course Bryce Remsburg is somehow involved in all of this.

The Verdict: SMV should consider not making DVDs anymore because I don’t see it getting any better than this. This is their magnum opus, an incredibly in-depth interview with one of the best indy wrestlers of the last ten years. This interview is so many things: introspective, happy, sad, angry. This is required viewing for anyone who considers themselves a fan of indy wrestling because Hero has literally worked everywhere and with basically everyone. I would argue this is also a must see for wrestlers as well because whether Hero was making smart or dumb decisions, there’s something to be learned from how he conducted himself in many situations. This is a chance to get new insight on guys like Mike Quackenbush, Ian Rotten, and numerous other wrestlers.

I only have a few criticisms. I really wanted to hear more about the Human Tornado feud because it’s one of the best PWG angles ever and really made me someone who purchased PWG DVDs on a monthly basis. I also would have liked to have heard Hero’s thoughts on Gabe Sapolsky since he seems to be willing to provide a lot of honest commentary on a number of other bookers. Also, what’s up with Eddie Kingston? Hero teased dissension there but never gave the full story. Finally, I wish we could have heard more about the CZW/ROH feud just because of how integral it was to both companies and the resuscitation of Philadelphia as an indy market. These are really nitpicks though. At 30 dollars, it’s a steal. Go to Smark Mark Video and buy this sucker right now.

In addition to wrestling podcasts, I am also a proud co-host of a show specifically geared toward Mad Men. Please check out all of our previous podcasts here. You can also download them off of iTunes.

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