It’s been a while since I wrote a column so bear with me. Getting some rust off the old keyboard. Since it would seem that more people want to discuss what’s wrong with ROH than anything else since it’s glaringly obvious that they have problems, after some very colorful discussion with several friends of mine I kinda wanted to put this out there to see what you guys thought.
It’s hard for me to pin point one major thing wrong with ROH. Being that my degree is in marketing, just so many things jump out at me. The list for me goes in this order of importance from most needed to change to least:
Bookers – Jim Cornette & Delirious have to go. I’m not saying they aren’t talented but from several reports both guys do share some of the booking with most of it being done by Cornette. Respect everything Corny has done in the business but there has to be a point where you recognize the business has passed you by. Delirious had full reign of the ship for a bit and he did nothing to excite me or the fans of the product. It almost felt as if Adam Pearce had never left and though I credit him for the pacing of the shows getting better in that it was under him that the opening matches were no longer trying to upstage the main event, he just hasn’t done enough to show he’s capable of taking a stand and he’s just coasting IMO. Sure you could say it’s pressure from the owners since they seem to be more marks for Cornette and that 80s style of wrestling, but if you don’t have the balls to stand up and say something then you might as well just leave anyway.
Production – This can be cut down and delved into even more and more but overall the production is shit. They don’t shoot in full HD. I know that recently their product looks better but at most it is 720 and that is just total bullshit when buying 1080 HD cameras, while not pocket change, is not that expensive. I work with several promoters and several writers of the site I help run have gone to their shows and confirmed they shoot with full 1080 cams so why ROH can’t do the same is appalling.
Also the look of the set up. Buy some simple banners that you can hang from the ceiling like ROH used to when NOAH talent came in. Buy some better ring aprons or switch them out between shows or at least buy some for the “big shows” like Death Before Dishonor or Glory By Honor when you know you’re going to have an annual name. Not saying each year get a new one for each new logo, just do something to stand out for the “big shows”. As for TV, lighting rigs. Do they not know about these? ROH is owned by a large TV entity and they can’t even light up their own shows correctly. I’m not saying it’s cheap but as they say, ” to make money you gotta spend money” and it seems the owners don’t seem willing to do this which leads to my next item.
Owners – I don’t want to but I’m going to bring up the culture issue. This company is based in Maryland. It’s a southern/Mid Atlantic state with a very obvious certain type of culture. I’ve got nothing against that, but could that culture be what is holding the promotion back? Gabe booked like a north eastern booker where it seems more likely that he was willing to take some chances, do some things that were cutting edge either for the better or detriment of the company but the man took chances. No offense to anyone from the area but I don’t see an entity owned by men who for better or worse seem to be more along the lines of political correctness hiring or backing a booker who would do these types of actions. Based on their seemingly tacit consent for how the bookers run ROH, I don’t see anything proving that theory incorrect unless someone can prove to me that their company is known for taking risks. So while I don’t wish to see ROH go upon financial hard times, even though at this point they might as well be seeing the lack of money being given to them to get better, I wish the owners of ROH would just hire someone who can make the product better, stay the hell out of the way, and just be happy when the money comes in because given the chance and the talent they have, I do firmly believe the money could come in.
Marketing – This is rather self explanatory. Make your product seem important. I highly disagreed with Jason and Wade when they answered my question on the Livecast though perhaps I didn’t make it clear. I’ll make an analogy:
The Avengers movie, most people loved it. Right? The spin off Avengers/Shield TV series that is going to be made, will we like it? I think we’ll see but I do not for one second believe that people who know that a TV series that is based on a successful movie are going to have the same expectations for the TV show. Perhaps similar, but if the graphics aren’t as good or the story telling isn’t as broad but more personal, I don’t think fans of the movie would say the TV was shit just because it didn’t live up to what the franchise was in a past incarnation. I could be wrong but with the many reviews of the film industry that I read and listen to, it seems very unlikely to me.
I feel the same way about ROH. ROH used to be a DVD based company. They had to bring about dream matches and have heavy duty story lines to get fans to buy their DVDs. Yes on TV you need good hooks, but you book TV far differently than you book a product that only has to worry about perhaps 2-4 events a month where generally they run back to back where as weekly TV plus an iPPV/house show has to chronologically be booked in what I feel is a much different way. I’ve listened to a lot of past booker interviews and to a person they all said booking a TV product was harder/different than booking back in the day when most shows were carbon copies of 1 format because news didn’t travel so fast and fan expectation was not what it is today.
But where as this seems more like a booking issue, I feel it’s also tied into the marketing. They don’t make their TV shows seem important in their ads, as if the fans are missing out. The ads are campy and feel like a 70s tv spot. While I’ve seen local tv advertisements and some flyers, it just doesn’t seem like enough to really bolster turn outs for each event. I’ve asked fans in specific markets numerous times if they see flyers or hear radio spots and for the most part the fans seem to know via the internet. As strange as it sounds, most of the US is not internet savvy. I know this by working for At&T in their Uverse management department. Most people do not consume news via the internet as they do in metro areas, and if I ran a company that booked in the venues that ROH runs, I’d put foot to ground and pound the pavement with street teams, running local ads and & radio to make sure every 18 inches there was a person sitting. I wouldn’t put up with these 200-400 average attendance. ROH used to draw and draw well and if done right, they could again but it was also because Cary did radio spots, Cary made sure street teams were formed on the message boards and that fans had some fun telling other people about the promotion they had a passion for. These new owners seem to think that the ROH brand and the internet alone will draw. That’s just not going to get you anywhere.
Talent – When it comes down to it I do believe that TNA has the best all around roster of talent. Perhaps if we want to talk numbers and fan appreciation WWE obviously is miles ahead but when it comes to an in ring product and what I can get for my dollar I think TNA is the top and I don’t care what anyone says I think the ROH roster could run circles around the upper mid to low card roster of the WWE if it came down to pairing up talent and telling them to go out and give the best performance they could. This does not include the upper echelon of the WWE such as Undertaker, Cena, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, but I will include Sheamus and ADR as upper mid card talents. Seriously does anyone take the World Title seriously any more?
So when it comes to that from an in ring perspective ROH used to have a simple philosophy:
Bring in some of the best indie (you’re welcome Will) talent out there and put them up and down the card and let them go. As time went on they tempered this and started to develop some of their own talent but for the most part all the talent in ROH was established in other promotions as the top around and ROH brought them together. We don’t really have that any more persay though that’s hard to figure if you know that guys like Cole made his name in CZW, O’Reilly made his name in EVOLVE, Alexander made his name in the southern promotions such as CWF, FIP & others and so on. But for the most part ROH I think has a very talented pool of guys who know how to tell good stories in the ring, they just need the booking to be something fans can sink their teeth into.
For right now that about sums up what I feel are some of the broader issues with ROH. Of course they can all be dissected and further delved into and feel free to do so. But those are my initial feelings on some of the negative aspects of ROH as of today. I wanted to get some of this out and I while it seems negative, I don’t want it to start negative sentiments, I want you readers to talk about what you feel ROH could work on to get better but as always feel free to leave any comments you want and/or contact me on twitter @ http://twitter.com/CGSTONG or via email @ cgstong@pwponderings.com
One big thing about the talent in ROH is the fact none of them stand out. Everybody is a dude in short trunks with short hair. S.C.U.M. and The Briscoes are not only over because they’re good in the ring and have really engaging promos, but because they stand out amongst the pack. ROH is in desperate need of people who make their audience pay attention.
Totally agree man. Kevin Steen is the Samoa Joe to this roster. He stands out.
I think it’s safe to say that ROH has been on a downward trend since Gabe was fired. While his 2008 stuff wasn’t spectacular compared to years before and there were/are brief moments of quality, the simple fact is that ROH is no longer the big indy company. PWG in particular has looooong since eclipsed them in quality of matches, diversity of roster, and compelling-ness of booking, and I would make the same case for Chikara. Maybe we shouldn’t ask what’s wrong with ROH. We should probably wonder what’s right with it and if anyone who runs it actually cares to point the company back into the right direction.
I agree completely man. I have to say that I would try to go with what is positive about ROH also at some point. It’s a work in progress, but believe me I do have positive thoughts about ROH.
To me the biggest problem is the roster. ROH always had a stacked roster. Now it is very thin. Do not see how you can say they have a good one. There is almost no mid card or lower card that stands out. The top positions are the same guys on a merry go round. Do not know why Chuck Taylor, Gargano, and ACH, among others, are not there. I know DGUSA and ROH are having a lovers spat but for there should be no choice between the two. Also, since the have a deal with OVW I would bring some of those guys in for a spell. Really like Spade and think he has potential. Also, what happened to their relationship with SHIMMER? Why aren;t women working here? Would help with these shows that have such thin line-ups. Plus, I am not a fan of Kevin Steen as champ and I think many of the IWC have to come to the grips that he is not working. His gimmick is basically the NWO plus he looks in worse shape than half the audience. I think it is a mistake to compare him to Samoa Joe. Joe looked like he would kick your ass. Steen looks like he wants to distract and eat your nachos. Plus I think his promos are so “smart” that outsiders are thinking “what?”
I fully agree on the production, the shows and PPV look very indy. Plus when they do the Live Wire segments for Youtube it looks like someone is filming wit their iPhone. Look at how well Chikara’s are in comparison. Embarrassing.
I can sort of agree with you there. But I get what you’re saying. At this point though ROH is not going to go around getting top talent from the indie scene unfortunately like they used to. It’s rather unfortunate that in the indie wrestling world we live in there cant be an even exchange of talent like there used to be. But if ROH had the storylines that we as fans could get into then they talent could very easily be just as big as the talent rosters of the past, not to say that it isn’t because I really think this talent pool is just as good as past ones.
Hi Chris
That was a great article that hit on a number of bang on points.
I have followed ROH since 2004 through DVD, HD Net, and now their website and iPPV.
I think that the most important point is that the booking has been lackluster since Gabe “left” in 2008. Everything feels dry except for Steen, and like you mentioned, it is good to test the waters with something new now and then.
I have not been as bothered by the lack of production values given that I watch through websites, but others are and will be if they try to watch. We live in a glitzy age of HD and pyrotechnics – when ROH does not do this, it comes off as third rate. I agree with putting money in to get money back.
Something that was not touched upon is that the indy scene has diversified a lot for the better since 2004-2005 when ROH was chugging away. Chikara has better production values than any other indy fed despite having no TV. PWG brings in amazing talent despite only having monthly shows (if that). DGUSA and Evolve have hit the scene, and will not having drawing power in North America, their story lines are usually crisp and wrestling is top notch. Thus, there is more competition for ROH’s third spot. Based upon attendance at shows, Chikara has been making big gains in the last 3 years and could easily close on ROH in the next year. Fans with storyline aspirations are likely moving to Chikara. Those fans with intentions to see the best indy guys have shifted to PWG.
Lastly, ROH has killed its reputation with its iPPV failures in the last 12 months. They attempted to nickel and dime, and it backfired completely. Part of the reason the iPPV streams were poor was because of the large number of fans purchasing, many of which probably won’t return anytime soon. As it is, they are cancelling shows in the Carolinas because of low ticket sales.
If ROH doesn’t thrive, it is a very bad thing for indy wrestling. They should be pointed at saying “There’s a success story. They started from grassroots and hit the national scene.” Instead, other companies are going to look at their failures and not attempt to strive to improve their product, being comfortable with a small niche market. Supporting ROH through the thick and the thin, waiting for them to return to the thick, I remain…
Thanks man. Really appreciate the comment. I do believe that they are trying to show that their iPPV service is working with these b level iPPVs leading up to major ones. With the report stating Boiling Point got 650 buys it’s not looking good, but I do think GBH & FB will bounce back to the regular near 2000 mark if not higher.